Concaeve SATelite

[mike]

But the result is magnificent!
How much did you use on 2 cabinets?

Half of the 0.85 liters.

Veneer for such a round cabinet is not easy to glue on. You will need a special vaccuum machine.
And I fear the veneer will crack at the corners. But I think there is special veneer available that might work.

[BertDB]

I was able to do already one cabinet in the oak veneer.
But, as you say, it ain't easy.
Ed gave me a good idea to make the veneer wet and use an iron with steam.
The veneer didn't crack and is nicely glued on the MDF, altough a vacuum machine would be easier..
It's a very accurate work and you have to bend it very slowly.
Quite a lot of work, but i'm also very pleased with the result.
I will post a photo later on today (tonight).

Have you any good idea's how to treat the oak veneer?
I want a natural look, light color.

[b_force]

Isn't the glue-glue and heating with an iron method a solution?

[mike]

Do you mean if I can suggest you a coating that preserves the natural look of you oak?

Try using hot water or vaporized water. High-frequencies might be a solution, too. Makes the
wood soft so you can bend it. But you need a special company that can do this for you.
http://elib.uni-stuttgart.de/opus/vollt ... hei129.pdf
AND: Let the veneer dry before you glue it!

Making a negative form of the SATelite can also help you to aviod crushing the oak at the corners
when you glue it.

[BertDB]

Do you mean if I can suggest you a coating that preserves the natural look of you oak?

That is exactly what I mean
I would like to use a protective coating that still preserves the natural look of the oak (no coloring if possible).
I'm far from an expert with wood or veneer, so a little advice is always welcome.

Based on what I experienced, it is indeed very important that the veneer is dry before you glue it on.
There is a place on the back of the cabinet where the veneer shows some waves.. I will try to heat that up once again with my iron and then squeeze is tight to let the glue become dry.

[mike]

ARTI (http://www.beckeracroma.com/de/Germany/Start/) and Lignal (http://www.hesse-lignal.de/)
are good manufactures for high quality (transparent) coatings.

[BertDB]

Thx!

Hesse-Lignal has a distributor in Belgium, quite near me.
I called them for some advice on which products I should take for my purpose.
Hopefully, I will be able to finish my cabinets soon now

[fluppie]

Be warned, expensive stuff:
0.85 litres are 110 € plus costs for Primer and Base preparation coatings.

It's great, but is not cheap.
Maybe we should start a groupbuy in Nextel paint

[BertDB]

For other people who want to treat oak-veneer with colorless varnish, here are the products I ordered:

I'll say it in dutch

Merk: Hesse-Lignal

1. CL5-52352
Lichte witte houtbeits
Goed nat aanbrengen en direct afvegen
Ongeveer 2 uurtjes laten drogen
Hier zie je achteraf niets meer van terug, ondanks dat ie wit is

2. Pura Natura
Hiervan 2 laagjes aanbrengen en tussen de laagjes lichtjes mat schuren
Behoudt prima de houtstructuur & kleur, vergeelt niet, heel kwalitatief!


Ik heb hem aangeschaft bij 'Colora Aalst', en enkel daar hebben ze vrijwel het volledige gamma van Hesse.
Op de website van Hesse kan je de lokale distributeur vinden in de Benelux.

@ fluppie:
forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl forum.groupbuys.nl

[b_force]

Fluppie has seen the light in groupbuys I think
Unfortunately there is already a groupbuy website: samenkopen.nl

xbake, is Hesse-Lignal also available in the Netherlands?
I really like the transparent look on wood.

[BertDB]

@ b_force

unfortunately, I don't see The Netherlands in the list of distributors.
Only Belgium, France, Germany and Luxembourg. Very strange.
the distributor for Benelux is in Nazareth/Belgium..
But, you can't place an order there. Colora Aalst is a paintshop where they sell Hesse.
If you like, we can always arrange something.
I can order it, and TNT is your friend

here is the website of the Benelux distributor:

Hesse.be
You can find it's catalogue under downloads.

[asterduc]

I can confirm with Mike that Arti is a good product too.
Have been using their products for 15 years on my guitars.
Articryl Ground Colorecht for grounding. This is a 2 component groundcoat. It does not color the wood (it even gets lighter) and can be sanded after 10 minutes.
To finish I used their High-Gloss 06050
There are some locations in Belgium and the Netherlands where you can buy their products.
http://www.arti-becker-acroma.com/page. ... ocID=61230.

Another alternative is Clou Cellulose. This is a 1 komponent laquer, easy to use and it also brings some white shine on the wood so that it remains natural after painting. The easiest way to get this product in the Netherland is through Vox-Humana, a guitar shop in Vlaardingen. They have good knowledge and experiences (>20 years) with this product and they deliver excellent service too.

[BertDB]

It took a while before I realized I was posting in the wrong topic.
I don't have Satelites, but the cost-friendly Rapides.
Nevertheless, I'm very happy with them

As promised a picture of my speakers with oak veneer.

[mike]

Congratulations! Looks very nice. The black driver and the oak fits smooth.
I assume you did already the suede coating?
Did you already made some Burst Decay Plots with ARTA?

[BertDB]

Thx!

I did not apply any coating yet.
I will use Hesse products to treat the oak veneer.
Nevertheless, the original oak color keeps retained.

I have to confess I don't have a measuring system yet.
Recently, I bought a DSP. I will setup a 2+2 system (Ed will make me some cornerwoofers too, someday )
My first priority now is to purchase a measuring system (ARTA / ATB PC PRO / ...)
Any advice is welcome.

[b_force]

You can find tons of information about measurement setups, if you use the search function

[BertDB]

You can find tons of information about measurement setups, if you use the search function

I know, I already did
I'm about to buy the atb pc pro system. Seems like a very complete system and perfect for my needs.
But, all input or advice is welcome . I'll use it in combination with a nettop or netbox pc (which i'm still searching for )

[b_force]

Mm just one offtopic reply then. (we can discuss it in another topic)

I shall go for ARTA, because ATB doens't have the option to place a time-window.
In other words, completely useless for in-room measurements.
(I really don't get it, a program for 150 euro and doesn't have that important option )

It's also far more expensive. You can use ARTA fully as free DEMO version (can't save .pir files, but that's not a big deal).

[BertDB]

Thank you Bart.
I will reconsider my decision..
My final goal is to make a crossover for the 2+2, AND to correct the imperfections of my room.
Clearly, without time window the last part won't be possible...
A good mic and ARTA seems the way to go...

now back ontopic

[mike]

You can get a good measurement microfone including calibration data here:
http://www.ibf-akustik.de/

The one that was delivered with ATB never worked on my Macbook. Further, ATB cannot import
a correction file, so that's why I programmed a perl script that recalculates the ATB measurement
curve based on a calibration file which I afterwards load into my TDA.

ATB file => recalculate SPL curve with calibration data => write ATB file again => load into Lyngdorf TDA

If someone needs that a file, just tell me.

[BertDB]

In the future, i'm planning to use my speakers with a Lyngdorf amplifier to.
What's the extention of the atb export file (*.pir?) and what are the files that Lyngdorf can work with.
If so, I will have to buy a licence of arta in the future (~90€)

[b_force]

ARTA is 80 euro

[mike]

Well ATB export is simple text file (*.txt) with a special header (see below) and a certain amount of data.

BTW, ATB is a tool that you should own for TDA Preset measurements. It is just... it could be better, e.g, calibration file load.
For measuring your room and setting up room correction Presets I would suggest that you do it as Kirchner describes:
Turning the microphone in an ellipse (r = 50cm) at the listening position (the center of the ellipse is where you ear normally is).
You can do some variations in height (~20cm). Same for the left ear / channel. Then one big overall eclipse for both
channels ..... am I right, Ed?

One advise: Take a *calibrated* microphone. You'll get faster to a good result (Preset).


The ATB file is like:
//HEAD
//Exportversion 0.9
ATB precision
Kirchner elektronik
38100 Braunschweig
//Parameters
//HEADLINE1

//DATE
04.10.2009 17:18:02
//Type
10-0 Optitest
//INPUT
::INPUT
//OUTPUT
::OUTPUT
//SMOOTH
1/3 octave
::SMOOTH
//DATA
Frequence HZ
Mag db
//VALUES Plotname2
19.0430,17.6900
24.9023,21.5200
31.4941,27.0500
37.3535,27.3800
43.9453,29.2700
49.8047,30.2200
56.3965,30.5200
...

[BertDB]

Clearly, finding a good measuring program isn't as easy as I tought and it is mostly based on finding a good compromise.
As I will use a TDAI 2200 in the future, I will opt for ATB PC. (no imp box needed).
Mike, would it be possible to send me your perl script with a little explanation how to use it?

[fluppie]

Clearly, finding a good measuring program isn't as easy as I tought and it is mostly based on finding a good compromise.
As I will use a TDAI 2200 in the future, I will opt for ATB PC. (no imp box needed).
Mike, would it be possible to send me your perl script with a little explanation how to use it?

As user of ATB & ARTA, I'm also intrested in this script you made. Cause I want to compare measuring programs .